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I'm OUTRAGED by the PETA Hormel Video Too!

09/17/08

Permalink 01:35:10 pm, by Chris Chinn   English (US)
Categories: Young Farmers and Ranchers

I'm OUTRAGED by the PETA Hormel Video Too!

PETA released a video yesterday showing abuse of pigs at a farm in Iowa. The way the animals were treated is not acceptable and the people who did this need to be held accountable.

As a livestock farmer, it is important to me to make sure my animals are well cared for. I know that a healthy, safe and comfortable animal produces safe and healthy food for my family and yours. My top priority is to provide humane and compassionate care for my pigs at all times. I follow best management practices on my farm. These include guidelines set by the National Pork Board, including Trucker Quality Assurance which teaches proper pig handling during transportation, and Pork Quality Assuarance Plus. Pork Quality Assurance Plus helps farmers care for animals and the environment in a safe and responsible manner. These programs are supported by animal scientists, retail consumers and veterinarians.

I am concerned about this video for many reasons. Not only because animal abuse is not acceptable but because these images may have been distorted. I wasn't able to see at one point in the video the sow being hit by the rod, I could see the employee raising their arm to swing, but I didn't see the sow being hit by the rod. I did see the rod, but to me it looks like it was hitting the pen or gate. I do not condone these behaviors, but I think we need to remember this is a video and videos can be misleading.

Another concern I have about this video is some of the scenes were taken out of context. For example, the baby pigs shown laying together were newborn pigs, they were still wet from the birthing process. Some of the pigs were stillborn, while others were alive, but I don't think this scene proves there was abuse to those animals.

Comments, Pingbacks:

Comment from: Troy Hadrick [Member]
I agree with you Chris. If these allegations are true, this is in no way acceptable behavior. Any person who believes in and practices animal husbandry would not do this to their animals.

These rare instances of farm animal abuse do no represent the overwhelming majority of livestock producers who realize how vitally important it is to handle their animals in the proper way.

There are a couple of things we should take home from this video. First, it is fortunate that we have the regulations in place to handle abusive situations in this country. If animal agriculture is forced out of this country, most other places don't have the laws in place to prevent and punish this type of behavior. We lose control of how animals are treated if they leave this country. Second, the AP article interviewed the undercover investigator and he said how he had to use all his willpower to not do anything about the alleged abuse. My question to him would be this, was shooting the video more important than stopping the abuse? Was his organization more important than protecting the animal? I believe anyone of us would have stepped in to stop these actions rather than being worried about getting good footage.
09/17/08 @ 14:53

Comment from: Chris Chinn [Member]
The farmers and ranchers I know do not allow mistreatment of any animal, period. As farmers and ranchers, we need to be out talking about the care we give our animals on a daily basis so people have an understanding of what we do on our farms and ranches. This is not normal behavior and we need to stress this to our friends, neighbors and consumers.
09/17/08 @ 15:24

Comment from: Anonymouse [Visitor]
I see where y'all are coming from, being farmers and all and not wanting to be tainted by association with something that you wouldn't tolerate on your own farm. But it's completely unfair to attack the investigator for not intervening because his "organization was more important than protecting the animal." Nothing was more important than protecting animals. Given that the government never does these kinds of undercover operations, and that this type of behavior would have continued unabated if he did not collect the evidence, he needed to stick around and get proof, for the sake not just of these animals but in order to bolster his case to get sweeping reform in the industry. Undercover cops don't usually bust the street dealer the moment he offers some dope. They form relationships and try to get an understanding of the scope of the operation as well as solid proof, before they make a bust. The same thing was going on here, where the investigator needed to get as much evidence as possible of the extent of the problem. If he had just gotten footage of one worker kicking a pig and blew his cover and got fired, this would never be in the news and nothing would be done. That would hardly have protected the animals.
09/17/08 @ 16:01

Comment from: Bixby [Visitor]
I disagree with you wholeheartedly. These piglets are NOT just born. These poor creatures are being killed for being small.....what if we did that to our species? We are 99% the same gentic wise as pigs.....That is why they are used for medical testing for human drugs. U think they don't feel? Every heard one when it was hurt? U would know that they do feel...just like we do. Imagine the punishment for people that do that to people....People that do that to a defensless animal...should get it worse!
09/17/08 @ 16:43

Comment from: Chris Chinn [Member]
As a farmer, I know first hand what the birthing process looks like and those animals laying together resembled new born pigs. Again, it's hard to tell from the footage what actually happened because it was cut and spliced. I agree wholeheartedly that anyone who does this to an animal should be punished. Period. There is no excuse for their behavior. As a person who cares for animals 365 days a year, I could never watch that happen in person. We've missed many family dinners because our animals were giving birth or needed our attention, we put their needs above ours.
09/17/08 @ 17:09

Comment from: Troy Hadrick [Member]
I think "mouse" made my point for me. This guy was worried about getting footage, just like you agreed. And if it had been me standing there, my first priority would have been to stop the abuse. As a producer, I would not have had the will power to stand idly by. None of the producers that I know could have. If the animal was being abused as badly as the video alleges, the animal's bruises would have been evidence enough.
09/17/08 @ 22:15

Comment from: Heather Hill [Member]
As a pork producer, parent, and most importantly a human being, I can't get the words "Hurt 'em" out of my head after watching the video. It is absolutely appalling that someone could even say that let alone feel that way and act that way towards a pig. At the same time, I can't believe that someone could stand there and video tape it without even asking them to stop. Even if you feel that the person had to keep taping it for "evidence" they could have at least asked them to stop. Instead of just standing there trying to accumulate "evidence." I have never, ever been on a farm that treated animals that way. As a pork producer, our number one goal is to raise healthy pigs that can be converted to healthy pork for all to consume. I completely 100% agree with Chris that our pigs' needs come before our family's needs on a daily basis. The bad actors in this industry need to be punished as do their employers for letting this behavior take place. But, please do not think for one minute that this is normal behavior on a hog farm. It is NOT. I have been around hogs my entire life and have never seen anything like I did in the video.
09/17/08 @ 23:01

Comment from: Gene Jenkins [Visitor]
What is shown on the video if correct is totally unacceptable and should be to everyone who views it. Being involved in production animal agriculture myself this would not be acceptable on my farm. We have a set of standard and specific ways of moving and working with our animals. These standards are for the benefit and protection of the animals themselves as well as the people who are working with them. They have been developed using the natural instinct of the specific animal involved. It is my opinion that the vast majority of animal producers are extremely concerned about the welfare of their animals. It is my belief that animal producers have the goal to produce the highest quality product for their customers. This can not be achieved using the methods shown.
09/18/08 @ 01:04

Comment from: Alaina [Visitor]
This footage serves as another blackeye to a burgeoning issue in animal ag. Regardless of if the video is taken out of context, it is damaging to the entire industry - not just the pork side. We cannot turn a cold shoulder and simply say, "I do not condone these practices - these are a very small portion of the industry." We need to show the accurate picture - not just tell - how we love and care for animals. Chris, you made a great point about missing many a family meal because of caring for your animals. That's exactly what we need to convey to combat these issues. The average non-ag-connected person still has a great deal of respect for the wholesomeness and values of being a "farmer," we must exploit that. And to our industry - do cases of animal abuse happen? Assuredly, yes. As they do in every industry - not just agriculture alone (clothing manufacturers/sweat shops come to mind). We embrace the fact Americans want more than just safe and wholesome food on their plates - they want to know the food was humanely raised and cared for (which, the majority of it is). As we prepare to work with our livestock, let us remember to hold our tempers, bite our tongues and remember how great a privledge it is to be entrusted to care for these creatures. (sorry for the long rant!)
09/18/08 @ 12:20

Comment from: Brian Stevenes [Visitor]
Chris and other readers, My name is Brian Stevens and I’m the director of hog procurement at Hormel Foods. We completely agree that the way the animals were treated in that video is shocking and totally not acceptable in the industry. As you may or may not know, this farm is not a direct supplier to Hormel Foods as it is a farrow to wean farm that sold weaned pigs to one of our suppliers who in turn raised those hogs in his finishing barns using good animal welfare practices and then sold them to Hormel Foods and another packer as market hogs. We didn't have any direct contact or relationship with the farm in the video. However, we want you to know that we are working with everyone involved right now to get to the bottom of the situation because we will not accept this type of behavior from anyone in our industry. As many of you have already said, the national standards that are in place do not allow for this treatment – thank you for being responsible producers and using humane handling and husbandry. Bottom line: the employees in the video are not behaving according to the standards to which they were trained. This situation emphasizes the need to make sure every employee in your company understands and follows the standards / protocols you put in place. - Brian, Hog Procurement
09/18/08 @ 19:33

Comment from: Ben Mckenney [Visitor]
I just saw that video and I cannot believe what I saw. I had to stop the video half way through because I didnt think that it was going to get any better. Lets look at the foundation of where this video came from? Why would PETA place this video out there when pork prices are at a low? Do they not want people to eat pork? Maybe they dont want free trade. Maybe they want everyone to eat Tofu and Hummice? The guy or girl that took the footage, its hard to tell what gender they were in the video, probaby has a hard time sleeping at night knowing that he stood there with a bigger eye than all of us and didnt say "hey...dont you think this is wrong?" Why is it that society cant stand up for the right thing? Follow the money and see where PETA gets their funding.
09/19/08 @ 07:49

Comment from: Ben Mckenney [Visitor]
Brian: Thanks for your post. As a non-pork producer im a bit lost because I dont know the terminology and the process. Do you mind explaining? How does this plant get called a Hormel plant but doesnt become a direct supplier? You posted "this farm is not a direct supplier to Hormel Foods as it is a farrow to wean farm that sold weaned pigs to one of our suppliers who in turn raised those hogs in his finishing barns" If you could explain the relationship if any you have to this video that would be awesome. Thank You
09/19/08 @ 08:05

Comment from: Brian Stevens [Visitor]
Hi Ben, When we say “farrow to wean” that means this farm is where baby pigs are born; they only spend about 18 to 20 days on this farm until they have grown enough to go to what is called a “finishing barn.” In this case, the weaned pigs were sold to another producer who owns the finishing farm where the pigs are grown to their full weight (which takes about 5 months) and then sold to a food processor, such as Hormel Foods. In this case, Hormel Foods' relationship is with the finishing farm, not the farrow to wean farm. As hopefully this shows, there are many different parts to this industry, which is why it is so important we are all following the same high standards of responsible animal treatment and care. Hope that explains the technical jargon. Thanks, Brian
09/19/08 @ 11:53

Comment from: Ben Mckenney [Visitor]
Thanks for the explanation Brian. Do you anticipate that Hormel will have stricter regulations and maybe incorporate a farm of origin policy? Its kinda like maple syrup. If I tap a tree and get sap from it, collect it, bring it back to the sugarhouse and boil it then filter and package it I know the sap is good and where it came from. If I buy sap from my neighbor who knows if its actually sap or water? Make sence?
09/19/08 @ 12:44

Comment from: Chris Chinn [Member]
Thanks Brian for giving us more details on the situation. I think it is good Hormel is working with everyone involved to solve this situation, even though they had no direct contact with this farm. This action proves Hormel is committed to caring for animals and producing healthy food for Americans. The national standards in place are very clear that animals should be treated with respect and care. As Brian said, Hormel DID NOT own this farm, and they encourage all farmers to abide by the national standards. While it's easy to want to shoot the 'messenger' we need to remember the important issue here...these animals were not being respected or properly cared for. Throwing stones will not remedy this problem. The worker or person who abused the animal should be held accountable for their actions. Again, as farmers & ranchers, we know the importance of caring for our animals, that is why the needs of our livestock come before our own needs. This is why my husband misses many of our children's ball games, school events, and family dinners. We have a responsibility to care for these animals, and we take great pride in doing that, even if it means missing a special event. As farmers and ranchers, we need to encourage everyone involved in the livestock sector to make sure they implement these standards if they are not already using them.
09/19/08 @ 18:35

Comment from: arlene [Visitor]
PETA needs to focus on the good actors too if they want to be credible. I agree the abuse was terrible, but it's hard to tell what you are looking at in the video sometimes. Some of the scenes looked a little staged to me, others were just disgusting. Holding on to the tape of 3 months was not in their best interest if their goal was to end abuse. Regardless, there are far more good actors than bad in this world. Bad stuff sells unfortunately so to prevent this from happening, you need to get the word out on how you do care for your animals farmers.
09/19/08 @ 20:46

Comment from: Alison Banville [Visitor]
Of course PETA don't want people eating pork! They are an animal rights organization and that means believing we do not have the right to exploit or inflict violence upon or kill weaker sentient beings. We can only eat animals because we can overpower them, simple as that. The same principle means that anyone, or thing, bigger, or more powerful, than you can imprison and kill you - it's called the right of might - and it cannot be justified morally. The fact is, we do not need meat to live - in fact all consensus agrees, inlcuding the World Health Organization, that non-meat based diets are healthier. If you care about your kids health you will not feed them these products, and if you want to 'do the right thing' you will not exploit the defenceless.
09/20/08 @ 07:43

Comment from: Heather Hill [Member]
Exploiting the defenseless.... last time I checked plants were living organisms just like animals. A vegetarian diet requires the killing of plants. So I guess we can't eat plants as well because we can overpower them. I know not many people will look at it this way, but it is the truth. Plants and animals are both living things. I have a hard time saying that either of them can not be justified morally since they ate both plants and animals in the bible. That being said, meat does provide a lot to a healthy diet. It is high in zinc, which is important for a healthy immune system. It contains more iron that most foods and it is more easily used by the body than iron from other sources. Red meat is an excellent source of complete proteins, vitamins, and minerals. A high-protein diet based on lean red meat has been shown to help weight loss. Meat is specifically listed as a food that children should eat more of to stimulate brain function and growth in numerous articles. As a parent, I have a hard time reading and hearing that and saying I should not give my children meat as a part of their healthy diet. We all need a healthy diet that is compromised of whole grains, fruits and vegetables, and meat. Eating meat is the right thing to do.
09/20/08 @ 16:21

Comment from: Chris Chinn [Member]
It's important to remember not only does livestock provide healthy food rich in zinc and iron and protein, the co-products from livestock play an important role in sustaining life. The insulin diabetics use is a co-product of our livestock. Pig heart valves are used for human's to sustain life. Livestock play an important role in sustaining life for everyone, even vegetarians. The co-products of livestock are also used in make-up, paint, and household floor coverings just to name a few. Livestock play a very important role in everyone's life on a daily basis.
09/20/08 @ 16:57

Comment from: Marc [Visitor]
Let PETA have their way and here is where our food supply will come from! Nearly 12,900 Chinese children sick from milk By SCOTT McDONALD – 51 minutes ago BEIJING (AP) — China said Sunday the number of children sickened by baby formula tainted with the banned industrial chemical melamine has doubled to nearly 12,900 as the government confronts a scandal over widespread contamination of the milk supply. More than 80 percent of the 12,892 children hospitalized in recent weeks were 2 years old or younger, the Health Ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site late Sunday. Four children have died. The ministry said most of the children sickened consumed infant formula from one company, the Shijiazhuang Sanlu Group Co. The dairy is at the center of one of China's worst food safety scandals in years. Over the weekend, the Chinese territory of Hong Kong reported the first known illness outside mainland China — a 3-year-old girl who developed kidney stones after drinking Chinese dairy products. She was discharged from the hospital, the Hong Kong government said. In the two weeks since the government first acknowledged the contamination, it has issued recalls for dairy products from 22 companies after tests turned up traces of melamine. The Health Ministry said that most of the hospitalized were sickened by powdered milk and formula. "The hospitalized children basically consumed Sanlu brand infant milk powder. No cases have been found from ingesting liquid milk," said the statement. Melamine is used in making plastics and is high in nitrogen, which registers as protein in tests of milk. Though health experts believe ingesting minute amounts poses no danger, melamine can cause kidney stones, which can lead to kidney failure. Infants are particularly vulnerable. Some of the farmers who sell milk to Chinese food companies are thought to have used melamine to disguise watered-down milk and fatten profit margins hurt by rising costs for feed, fuel and labor. The ministry did not say why the number of cases had suddenly doubled from 6,200 on Saturday, but it suggested that health officials were combing through hospital records from May through August to trace the origins of the contamination. The deaths of three infants linked to tainted infant formula occurred in those months, the statement said. In Hong Kong, parents of the 3-year-old girl took her for a checkup because she had been drinking milk made by Chinese dairy Yili Industrial Group Co. every day for the past 15 months. Yili was among the 22 companies whose products were recalled for melamine contamination. The Chinese government has launched high-profile efforts to show it is on top of the crisis, with Premier Wen Jiabao appearing on state-run television Sunday to say diary companies had to show more "social responsibility." Wen was shown visiting a Beijing hospital where children were having health checks. He also stopped at a supermarket to look at dairy products. "What we need to do now is to ensure that nothing like this happens in the future, not only in dairy products but in all food," Wen said. Since the problem of tainted milk products became public knowledge less than two weeks ago, the crisis has spread to include almost all of China's biggest dairy companies. Their products have been pulled from stores around the country, and in other places such as the self-governing Chinese territories of Hong Kong and Macau. Starbucks stopped offering milk in its 300 outlets in China. Hong Kong's two main supermarket chains said Sunday they were recalling milk powder made by Swiss manufacturer Nestle after a newspaper reported it contains melamine. Spokeswomen for both companies said they acted as a precaution after Hong Kong's Apple Daily reported Sunday that tests it commissioned showed that Nestle milk powder made in China's northeastern Heilongjiang province contained melamine. Nestle's Hong Kong office did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment. Calls after work hours to its Beijing office and Beijing hot line went unanswered. But the company said in a statement last Wednesday that none of its infant formula and milk powder products contained melamine. "Nestle can hence assure its ... customers that its products are safe for consumption," it said. Taiwanese company King Car Co. announced it has recalled packs of its Mr. Brown instant coffee and milk tea containing contaminated milk powder imported from China. Japan and Singapore have recalled Chinese-made dairy products, and the governments of Malaysia and Brunei announced bans on milk products from China even though neither country currently imports Chinese dairy items. The concern is because melamine has been found not only in powdered milk — used to make baby formula and other products — but also in liquid milk sold by China's biggest dairies. Food and product safety scandals have been a feature of Chinese life. Only last year, the government promised to overhaul inspection procedures after exports of medicines, toys, pet food ingredients and other products killed and sickened people and pets in North and South America. The chemical in the dangerous pet food was the same as in the milk scandal — melamine.
09/21/08 @ 22:19

Comment from: Ben Mckenney [Visitor]
So, If meat is bad for us then why is it in the food pyramid? Our ancestors survived on meat to live and now its not good for us? People live on deer meat as part of their diet. Let just say we lived on an all "tomatoe and hallipino pepper" diet and then we found out that it all contained ecoli? Then what would we eat? Why would we limit ourselves? How about this one? What did John McCain eat when he was in Haloi, Vietnam lying in a bed with broken arms and legs I bet it was more than lettuce and berrys
09/21/08 @ 23:47

Comment from: Susan Kidder [Visitor]
I was sickened by just a few seconds of watching the video, and I'm not feeling a whole lot better after reading the comments above. I believe those of you who say that you do not treat your animals in this manner, but just "getting out the word that you don't" isn't enough. If you don't want those of us who are only willing to eat meat that is raised locally under conditions we feel are humane - then you have to police yourselves as in industry. Each and every one of the men above who claim to be outraged should jump in your vehicle, and head on up there to look the situation over for yourselves. And then you need to clean up the trash in your own backyard. Don't ask those of us outside your industry to believe you ... unless and until you are visibly engaged policing those who treat animals this way ... "I don't do that" is no longer good enough.
09/22/08 @ 18:19

Comment from: Mike Ver Steeg [Visitor]
I'm a third generation, 35-year-old hog producer and I raise 850 sows just a football-field away or so from the home where I live with my wife and three children. All I've ever wanted to do is farm and that's why it's maddening to hear stories about the mistreatment of livestock on that farm in Bayard. But it makes me even more upset to read comments from folks who don't spend 10 hours a day in a hog barn like me, who lump us all together and think what went on in Bayard, goes on in hog barns across the state. They're wrong! My wife and three young children help raise my hogs and I would never allow them, nor anyone else on my farm, to mistreat my animals. Sure; my young children understand the true purpose of the hogs we raise and they don't form the same kind of attachment to them as they do to Max, our dog, who greets them at the end of the driveway when they get off the school bus. But hogs, just like all animals on any responsible livestock farm, deserve to be treated with respect. Every farmer I know or have ever worked with, understands that. Every hired hand and family member lives by that creed.
All I ask for the people reading this letter who haven't been on farms like mind is common sense; understand that what went on in Bayard is not the norm, whether hogs in Iowa are raised in feedlots, on pastures or in confinement barns. Lyon County, where I live, depends on hog production to keep the small towns thriving and feed not just your family, but mine. Hog farming is something we do right, and do well. Please keep that in mind, the next time some out-of-state PETA person holds a news conference to use one tragic story to draw conclusions about hog farming in Iowa. Don't believe it.
09/22/08 @ 22:44

Comment from: Chris Chinn [Member]
Susan, The pork sector has been policing themselves for years, but many people do not know this information because farmers spend their time caring for their animals, not talking about it. We follow STRICT guidelines when it comes to animal care; these guidelines are called Pork Quality Assurance Plus. These guidelines are followed religiously because to sell pigs today, you have to be Pork Quality Assurance Plus certified or no processor will purchase your pigs. A healthy animal produces healthy food. I'm a farmer and a mother too and I wouldn't feed my family anything that wasn't healthy, and I wouldn't want you to either. I am proud of being a farmer, and I take great pride in raising healthy and well cared for hogs. Please do not assume all farms care for their animals as you saw in the video. We have an outside third party come in and do audits of our farm to ensure we are doing everything we can to protect the environment and our animals. We also have another level of policing to ensure we follow the Pork Quality Assurance Plus guidelines, the processing facility we sell our hogs to randomly inspects our farm at least 4 times a year. They do this to ensure to you, our customer, that your food was produced by animals that are well cared for and healthy. On our farm, we have a zero tolerance for animal abuse. We have never had this happen on our farm because our family cares about our animals and we have in depth training on the proper care for our pigs. Please do not assume the actions in the video are the standard behavior for all farms because farmers go to great lengths to protect our animals. Thank you for offering the suggestion and I hope you feel more comfortable knowing there are measures already in place to ensure safe and nutritious food. The person in the video was obviously a bad actor but please do not lump all farms into the same category.
09/23/08 @ 19:48

Comment from: Heather Hill [Member]
Susan, I would ask that you please read and believe in Chris' blog comment in the above posting. All we have is our word. You are willing to take the word of the local producers in your area that they treat their animals humanely so please take our word. We are local producers as well. In fact, my family sells some of our pork at the farmer's market as locally raised livestock. We sell the rest of our pork to a commercial processor to sell in the main stream grocery stores. Our local customers believe in us. Our integrity is very important to us. As a livestock producer, the care of our animals is our top priority. Please believe in us and take our word.
09/24/08 @ 13:26

Comment from: Troy Hadrick [Member]
Susan, While it may seem easy to you for us to drive around policing other people, it isn't. You see we all have our own animals to take care of and good animal husbandry requires us to be taking care of them. And on another point we have been visibly engaged in policing. Our livestock industries have spent a lot of money developing programs for producers to learn best management practices. While i am not involved in the pork industry, i am very involved in the beef industry. We have developed programs such as Beef Quality Assurance, we have hired consultants to guide us on proper animal handling and continue to research even better methods. We have all supported laws that deal with people who abuse animals. Our efforts don't always make the nightly news, but that doesn't mean we aren't actively working to prevent this criminal activity. I would encourage you to learn more about the livestock industry and what better source to learn from than those of us that work every day in it.
09/24/08 @ 16:01

Comment from: Troy Hadrick [Member]
As I mentioned earlier, most of the great things we do in the livestock industry won't make the nightly news like an undercover video will. I recently read an article in Drovers Magazine that is a great example of the majority of producers. All of the efforts that we give to making sure that our animals receive the greatest care and handling have resulted in the safest food supply in the world. I would encourage people to take a look at this article. http://www.drovers.com/news_editorial.asp?pgID=731&ed_id=4818
09/24/08 @ 16:11

Comment from: Alison Banville [Visitor]
Heather's comments are so full of mistakes I really don't know where to start - take your family dog (or your neighbour's) out into your local town, and in the middle of the most busy street stick a knife in the dog's throat, then stick a knife in a cucumber and see if you can tell the difference, I'll bet the crowd will know! You have animal protection laws in the US, you must be totally bemused by these as animal cruelty is obviously something you think does not exist. you need to research SENTIENCY as it is something animals have but which you would conveniently deny to prop up your lifestyle choices. If I had to address your ridiculous analagy I would say that plants do not have a central nervous system so cannot feel pain and they do not possess the sentiency we observe in animals. The fact that we know cruelty can be inflicted on animals as our culture recognizes because it will prosecute people who do it (again you must be confused by this Heather) means that we acknowledge they can suffer. To ignore suffering we KNOW exists while we argue about plants cannot be justified. 'Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages'. ~Thomas A. Edison 'People must have renounced all natural intelligence to dare to advance that animals are but animated machines.... It appears to me, that such people can never have observed among them the different voices of need, of suffering, of joy, of pain, of love, of anger, and of all their affections. It would be very strange that they should express so well what they could not feel'. ~Voltaire As for health, again you are totally wrong. First of all, I will say again - WE DO NOT NEED MEAT TO LIVE AND THRIVE - this is fact, once we know this you must justify the taking of life required in eating animals because it is unecessary. It is habit nothing more. You do not address the right of might point. You must accept that anyone can overpower you and kill you and that is morally right because that is how you operate in your relation to animls. Back to health, ask Carl Lewis how he won four gold medals as a vegan! Ask Scott Jurek, the world's greatest ultra marathon runner, world record holder for the Death Valley race of over 100 miles how he did it as a vegan. You are not doing what is best for your children by stuffing meat into their innocent bodies, you are simply deluding yourself, and you are teaching them that violence against animals, against the weak and defenceless is ok. Why is meat on the food pyramid? Are you serious? No wonder the public are so easily fooled, do you always accept exactly what you're told without question? Try asking why the government promote meat and dairy and why they will back them ever time? Shall I tell you or can you work that out for yourself? Look at research that isn't funded or supported by the meat industry. Don't you know that most people eat far too much protein and that it causes a leakage of calcium from the bones as the body attempts to address the acidity? Also, too much protein is a cancer risk, see this study - http://mednews.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/8388.html And watch this Professor T. Colin Campbell PhD -- Animal protein (meat and dairy) causes cancer Celebrated Cornell professor T. Colin Campbell discusses his decades of NIH-funded research which show that meat and dairy promote cancer growth and a plant-based (vegan) diet can prevent and even reverse cancer. Covers the Oxford-Cornell-China Study which the New York Times called "the Grand Prix of epidemiological studies." Watch his presentation here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1308977765978236346
10/05/08 @ 09:25

Comment from: Ben Mckenney [Visitor]
So, Alison would it be safe to say that you are a vegetarian? Do you feel that people shouldnt be eating meat? Have you checked out the oil prices lately? Why should I judge a neighbor who shoots deer this November to fill his freezer for the winter so his family can survive because here in Maine we cant grow vegetables from Oct til June? Should the family starve because you feel that people should be not eating meat? Im confused? Im pretty sure that Vegan lifestyles are exactly what they are a lifestyle and its a choice. I choose to eat meat and thats my choice.
10/06/08 @ 20:27

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